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115

The Conundrum of Raiding as a Melee Player in Battle for Azeroth

Pubblicato 25/05/2019 alle 15:01 da wordup

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Commento di wordup Stop complaining, you're preaching to the chior at this point. Stop playing melee and roll a ranged dps character. \r
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Your issues are solved, next complainee!\r
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Unfortunately that's already had to happen this tier (a Straw\/Camel's back situation). I tried and may have failed to express the intent of the article, it's not me complaining or praying for a situation that lets me play melee, it's highlighting that the problem is still there and why I think it's happening, and what it's causing - end of the day there are some people who are still going to want to play it as long as the role remains in the game. Commento di Carbisari Have you considered that people like and dislike certain things? ("You" being Preliatus)

People should be able to play what is most fun for them, rather than having to sink time and energy into something that isn't because the raiding meta changes. Commento di Peredhil Oh boy, more drama! Yes please!\r
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If that's all you can come up with as comment for a well written article, tackling a current raiding issue in a technical way, you are a disappointment... Commento di Nitros14 It's funny you mention mythic Gul'dan as an encounter that encourages a "healthy balance" when the first kills took the bare minimum hunters\/spriests and 1 mage and the rest melee (enough ranged to make eyes not target melee, and the mage to spellsteal tank.)

That fight was extremely skewed in favour of melee dps. When we had to try to do Gul'dan with 7+ ranged it was miserable because the raid took extreme damage baiting the hellfire in p1 and having everyone have to constantly move we lost so much dps.

And p3 with 7+ ranged was miserable trying to burst the parasites in time. Commento di Kurias Have you considered that people like and dislike certain things?\r
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People should be able to play what is most fun for them, rather than having to sink time and energy into something that isn't because the raiding meta changes.\r
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People should just play what they find most fun to play, period. I don\u2019t cater to other people and I don\u2019t understand why anyone would. Commento di Spanky2k The insanity of this is that Blizzard actively encourage people to switch to melee dps as they only ever introduce melee classes. How is it that we now have *fewer* ranged dps specs than we did in Classic?\r
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Survival should have stayed a ranged spec, Monks should have got the ranged dps spec they were meant to get and they need to add a pure ranged dps class (no tank, healer or melee dps spec) in the next expansion. Commento di omedon666 The insanity of this is that Blizzard actively encourage people to switch to melee dps as they only ever introduce melee classes.

To be more specific: They introduce tank (and healer) classes to move the queue along for the majority DPS playerbase, and the fantasy of what classes they have introduced just don't fit ranged.

But yes, ultimately you're right. Commento di wordup It's funny you mention mythic Gul'dan as an encounter that encourages a "healthy balance" when the first kills took 2 hunters\/spriests and 1 mage and the rest melee (enough ranged to make eyes not target melee, and the mage to spellsteal tank.) \r
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That fight was extremely skewed in favour of melee dps.\r
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While I agree when you're talking a hyper optimised situation like the very first kills (which ultimately this article isn't super targeted at - those circumstances often are divorced from the end reality of how a fight is done), you were never in a situation where you were completely locked out from Ranged - indeed by the top 50 Ranged were really frequently seen. This expansion has seen melee at a massively reduced rate extending way past the 100. I do agree though, I was looking at it from a diversity of mechanic perspective & targeted roles within an encounter for Gul'dan rather than the most effective strat used - in that sense it would have probably been a better choice to look at something such as Helya or Argus Commento di Peredhil Have you considered that people like and dislike certain things?\r
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People should be able to play what is most fun for them, rather than having to sink time and energy into something that isn't because the raiding meta changes.\r
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People should just play what they find most fun to play, period. I don\u2019t cater to other people and I don\u2019t understand why anyone would.\r
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Ideally, that is correct. The problem is when this approach collides with creating a viable raid team for a certain encounter, and is also linked with the huge drop in playerbase during BfA. Less recruitment options, unless you are on a high pop server, less room to work around, certain classes are made mandatory, and speaking mostly about regular CE progression, nothing fancy like Hall of Fame or higher. Commento di omedon666 Is it perhaps possible that this is all a symptom of this "multiple tracks" approach Blizzard are taking to gearing?

Ask yourself this: Where are melee strong? Is that a viable path to "good enough" gear? If the answer is yes... (and I'm not supporting this just throwing it out there), maybe Blizzard are thinking "you should raid with friends, friends will let you play what class you want, if you're not raiding with friends we provide this other path to gear," and call it a day?

Again, I'm not saying that's right... but the higher you go up the food chain of gearing paths, it's not insane to assume that you're either a) with friends that will let you do you or b) with "non friends" (super serious raid team) among whom "the meta" is more important than "your feelings."

Ultimately... there is a headspace where the idea that "not every comp gets to down this" is "ok." I'm not in that headspace, but I can imagine it. Again, "non-friends" teams, upper echelons, etc.

Unfortunate example: Beastmastery hunter Vs Fire mage in open world questing. Not even the same universe, there is a clear "you belong here" and "you don't" point. It's INSANE to contemplate that any class would have open world questing as a weakness, and that is totally wrong, but... it's a thing in WoW. That fire mage is better off dungeon leveling. Commento di omeomorfismo still i dont understand why blizz refuse to let us disabling other people spells in raid. really, nothing is more obnoxious than mage frost ball, pets or dh wings.... Commento di Karille Playing melee is tough and no doubt that the mechanics have been quite hostile to them. I play a Frost DK currently and I enjoy abusing the powerful defensive cooldowns I have both lessen the amount of healing I need to get and to survive at all. While this current raid tier can nasty to melee specs, there is something to be said about how less impossible it is to actually have more than a handful in your raid than it was in Udir.\r
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In the end I'm okay with encountering melee unfriendly things. I felt like that was the general risk of being a melee, you have to be ready to react as soon as you can and make decisions faster than range. Generally in return, I found many melee specs have shorter interrupts and more or better tools to handle many situations. Not all are equal, but this is more a discussion without a focus on individual specs. \r
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What I was not okay was in Udir where you had to spread out on multiple bosses at all times and if you had one extra melee, that one was not going to even have hope to be part of it, not because of damage, not because another class or spec had a better tool, it was just because they couldn't get near the boss without a high chance wiping the raid. Even if that melee did double the damage of any range you'd be bringing in that place, that melee will not be able to join.\r
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Melee unfriendly is okay, by nature of the beast I think it generally is going to be unfriendly. A creating an environment for melee to barely or never be able to enter is not. Commento di Feralsoul Feral druid here, I feel like I really am some sort of mythic animal given how there are virtually none of us in existence anymore. I haven't seen a raid composition in some time that has needed or wanted a specialized druid of my kind or really any melee for that matter; my raid has been doing Heroic some time and there has been no need for another melee at all. Everyone who was previously went ranged or decided to tank or heal because it was easier or more reliable or a role was open for that. No one fought to stay in melee, so now it is just me (again). Nevertheless, as a Feral druid I don't actually bring anything to the raid that isn't otherwise available as good if not better elsewhere.\r
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Battle for Azeroth feels like another low point in balance and design, especially hot off the heels from Legion, and is probably one of the least fun expansions as melee. A lot of these encounters feel like they would be fun if I didn't spend so much time moving around, away, or to mechanics. Commento di Alanray43 Ever thought bluzzard doesn't want melee dps in raids, and are only begrudgingly nerfing the bosses due to outrage? Commento di Xalea Just go kill Ivus in 5 minutes for your 400 piece. Problem solved. I haven't raided at all in BfA. Class design is so poor I lost interest, aside from the ranged\/melee junk. Commento di omedon666 Just go kill Ivus in 5 minutes for your 400 piece. Problem solved.

You likely say this while laughing (angrily or otherwise), but I honestly don't think this overall mindset is completely absent from the intent.

I do think they are personalizing the game to individuals with individual gearing paths, to cover their ass when they respond to the hype of harder group content so much that they edge out entire classes from "the meta."

Like you, I haven't raided OR DUNGEONED beyond absolute story necessity at all this expansion. My "leveling dungeons" for classes that prefer that angle are timewalking, and for everyone else there are other paths. The "good enough is good enough" and "in a few months this 5 minutes of effort will be worth more than it is now" kinds of thinking are my game now. It's super chill, I run warfronts once per cycle and I'm geared more than "good enough" for my needs. I can't even fathom a middle of the road raiding mindset.

If you aren't raiding with friends for the comraderie, one should be willing to adapt to the meta, I imagine that's where their head is at. The meta says melee=bad. That's raiding now.

There are other paths to gear, their ass is covered. Raid for raiding itself, for friends or for the meta, or do something else. I imagine they can't come out and say that, but I'd be willing to bet they're thinking it. Commento di Falcon213 What Blizzard needs to finally do wrt this is stop waffling back and forth about if Mistweaver Monk and Holy Paladin are melee or ranged. They're so inconsistent it seems like they flip a coin sometimes. ESPECIALLY with Glimmer being confirmed not going anywhere, that immense gain in throughput forces a Holy Paladin into melee - and on some fights they ignore mechanics like melee do, on others they get targetted even when melee can't. Its so bizzare.

Do you have an example of this is the last two expansions? The only time I can think of a Holy Paladin or MW Monk getting targeted by ranged mechanics in Legion and BfA is when there aren't enough ranged in the group for the specific mechanic, thus targeting melee as well. Commento di shadey81 range has been favored since vanilla, it isn't something new, it's just the design since alot of bosses have cleave abilities. range has downside as well, unless you are a hunter you can't maintain damage while moving so your dps drops and there is a number of fights with alot of movement. unless you are pushing a world first mythic kill there isn't actually a good reason to exclude melee dps Commento di wordup What Blizzard needs to finally do wrt this is stop waffling back and forth about if Mistweaver Monk and Holy Paladin are melee or ranged. They're so inconsistent it seems like they flip a coin sometimes. ESPECIALLY with Glimmer being confirmed not going anywhere, that immense gain in throughput forces a Holy Paladin into melee - and on some fights they ignore mechanics like melee do, on others they get targetted even when melee can't. Its so bizzare. \r
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Do you have an example of this is the last two expansions? The only time I can think of a Holy Paladin or MW Monk getting targeted by ranged mechanics in Legion and BfA is when there aren't enough ranged in the group for the specific mechanic, thus targeting melee as well.\r
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Uu'nat's recent change includes Holy Paladins in the ranged pool for Unstable Resonance, but not Mistweaver. Commento di stormrage666 Go Ranged.

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