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115

The Conundrum of Raiding as a Melee Player in Battle for Azeroth

Pubblicato 25/05/2019 alle 16:01 da wordup

Melee in Battle for Azeroth Raiding: Uldir, Battle of Dazar'alor and Crucible of StormsWordupEnhancement Shaman guide writerAbout the Author

This guide is written by Wordup, an Enhancement theorycrafter who works closely with other moderators within the Shaman discord Earthshrine and other melee communities. You can find him on Twitter & Youtube.Specific Problem Points for Melee

As mentioned above, forced downtime caused by mechanics. This includes those that restrict your range and require you to reposition or lose massive downtime by moving out (sometimes out of melee range of your target) such as Risonanza Instabile or Slavina, or effects that cause extreme displacement that can sometimes be unavoidable, such as Schianto dell'Onda d'Urto;

Significantly higher visual noise around your character. This is a combination of unsuppressed animations such as Globo Congelato and that all pets will centre around the rear of a boss. When an encounter such as Cabal has a large number of visual effects that can be mixed up in this (Schianto del Vuoto and Essenza dell'Oceano as examples) makes navigating a limited space all the more difficult;

Lack of access to good Cleave/AoE if targets aren't able to be stacked. This is a point that is limited the heaviest by encounter design, but BfA's mantra so far has heavily dissuaded (or even strictly blocked) stacking targets together, which significantly favours classes that don't strictly require targets to all be in one localised spot, incentivising multi-dotting or long range spread cleave;

Needing to be in a specific location to cover certain utility roles, particularly in relation to interrupts or abilities like Oscurità. This has already in both Crucible encounters made ranged interrupts more desirable than melee to the point were long-winded rotations are set up to circumvent the problems of individual cooldown lengths - something that has traditionally been a melee job for that very reason - because melee simply can't efficiently or safely cover them reliably.

buff melee damage!shouldCurrent Content ExamplesUldirUu’natBattle of Dazar’alorThe Restless CabalUldirUu’natRisonanza InstabileMiasma MaleodoranteFetid DevourerSfera dell'OblioMythraxOndata di CorruzioneG'huunBattle of Dazar’alorThe Restless CabalDubbio DevastanteIra di KimbulOndata di Mare14th of Maya number of hotfixesextremelyGul'danOcchio di Gul'danFerita ParassiticaFiamme di SargerasVilvincoli PotenziatiThe Place of Melee in a Raid Group

Detonazione Fulminante on Grong to dissuade stacking the boss with add spawns;

Patto dei Loa coupled with Ira dei Loa on Conclave to not only make cleave-induced damage increases difficult to gain, but also far less relevant due to the heal;

Extremely spread, high priority target spawns, examples being:
Tessitore del Vuoto Nerubiano (Zek'voz),

Corpuscolo della Corruzione (Fetid Devourer Mythic),

Scimmiottizzatore 3000 (Grong Mythic),

Inseguitore Vorace (Conclave),

Sirena Tentatrice/Tempesta Energizzata (Stormwall),

Plagiamente Primordiale/Guardiano Imperituro (Uu'nat Mythic);

Vincolo CiecoUu’natGuardiano ImperituroBersaglio MarchiatoJainaProposito OscuroG'huunPresa MortalePlagiamente PrimordialeWhat Makes Good Melee Encounters/Mechanics?moreStar Auger'sGrande CongiunzioneUu’nat'sRisonanza Instabileare

Mechanics that force, or heavily incentivise players to be in melee range for quick target swaps. This "obscurity" mechanic works well to encourage high movement combined with close range damage tools. Fights that successfully achieve this are Bomba Viventes on Jadefire Masters and Ferita Parassiticas on Gul'dan;

Mechanics that encourage having stacked - but distinct - camps that are split between melee and ranged, usually designed to fluctuate between each. Two fights that did this well in Legion were Helya with Globo della Corruzione, and Maiden in Tomb with Frammenti d'Essenza on Mythic difficulty;

Encounters that split the raid that have mechanics that are dealt with better by Ranged or Melee depending on the side. The best example of this recently is Opulence, as the Lightning side leans toward ranged space management while melee are significantly more suited to dealing with the Fire side's Fiamme del Castigo mechanic;

Things that need to be soaked in multiple tiers, allowing for melee to serve as a "last line of defense" around a target to soak when things inevitably sneak through or are spread in specific sections. Previous examples like the weighting of soak pools on Krosus toward the front of the bridge, or the upcoming Eternal Palace encounter Lady Ashvane's Onda Increspata;

Very heavy movement requirements during intense periods in an encounter without extreme positional constraints. This includes things such as the final phases of Argus, Helya (assuming you didn't get an orb), Operator Thogar during Train movement, or Aggramar;

Sfera dell'OblioMythraxCuore di GhiaccioPresa MortaleOscuritàIs it Really as Bad as People Say?as exampleswow, there’s a Feral Druid in this kill? I wonder what they needed one of those for!they must be aninsane player to be brought over in a vacuum

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Commento di wordupStop complaining, you're preaching to the chior at this point. Stop playing melee and roll a ranged dps character.

Your issues are solved, next complainee!Commento di CarbisariHave you considered that people like and dislike certain things? ("You" being Preliatus)

People should be able to play what is most fun for them, rather than having to sink time and energy into something that isn't because the raiding meta changes.Commento di PeredhilOh boy, more drama! Yes please!Commento di Nitros14It's funny you mention mythic Gul'dan as an encounter that encourages a "healthy balance" when the first kills took the bare minimum hunters/spriests and 1 mage and the rest melee (enough ranged to make eyes not target melee, and the mage to spellsteal tank.)

That fight was extremely skewed in favour of melee dps. When we had to try to do Gul'dan with 7+ ranged it was miserable because the raid took extreme damage baiting the hellfire in p1 and having everyone have to constantly move we lost so much dps.

And p3 with 7+ ranged was miserable trying to burst the parasites in time.Commento di KuriasHave you considered that people like and dislike certain things?

People should be able to play what is most fun for them, rather than having to sink time and energy into something that isn't because the raiding meta changes.Commento di Spanky2kThe insanity of this is that Blizzard actively encourage people to switch to melee dps as they only ever introduce melee classes. How is it that we now have *fewer* ranged dps specs than we did in Classic?

Survival should have stayed a ranged spec, Monks should have got the ranged dps spec they were meant to get and they need to add a pure ranged dps class (no tank, healer or melee dps spec) in the next expansion.Commento di omedon666The insanity of this is that Blizzard actively encourage people to switch to melee dps as they only ever introduce melee classes.Commento di wordupIt's funny you mention mythic Gul'dan as an encounter that encourages a "healthy balance" when the first kills took 2 hunters/spriests and 1 mage and the rest melee (enough ranged to make eyes not target melee, and the mage to spellsteal tank.)

That fight was extremely skewed in favour of melee dps.Commento di PeredhilHave you considered that people like and dislike certain things?

People should be able to play what is most fun for them, rather than having to sink time and energy into something that isn't because the raiding meta changes.Commento di omedon666Is it perhaps possible that this is all a symptom of this "multiple tracks" approach Blizzard are taking to gearing?

Ask yourself this: Where are melee strong? Is that a viable path to "good enough" gear? If the answer is yes... (and I'm not supporting this just throwing it out there), maybe Blizzard are thinking "you should raid with friends, friends will let you play what class you want, if you're not raiding with friends we provide this other path to gear," and call it a day?

Again, I'm not saying that's right... but the higher you go up the food chain of gearing paths, it's not insane to assume that you're either a) with friends that will let you do you or b) with "non friends" (super serious raid team) among whom "the meta" is more important than "your feelings."

Ultimately... there is a headspace where the idea that "not every comp gets to down this" is "ok." I'm not in that headspace, but I can imagine it. Again, "non-friends" teams, upper echelons, etc.

Unfortunate example: Beastmastery hunter Vs Fire mage in open world questing. Not even the same universe, there is a clear "you belong here" and "you don't" point. It's INSANE to contemplate that any class would have open world questing as a weakness, and that is totally wrong, but... it's a thing in WoW. That fire mage is better off dungeon leveling.Commento di omeomorfismostill i dont understand why blizz refuse to let us disabling other people spells in raid. really, nothing is more obnoxious than mage frost ball, pets or dh wings....Commento di KarillePlaying melee is tough and no doubt that the mechanics have been quite hostile to them. I play a Frost DK currently and I enjoy abusing the powerful defensive cooldowns I have both lessen the amount of healing I need to get and to survive at all. While this current raid tier can nasty to melee specs, there is something to be said about how less impossible it is to actually have more than a handful in your raid than it was in Udir.

In the end I'm okay with encountering melee unfriendly things. I felt like that was the general risk of being a melee, you have to be ready to react as soon as you can and make decisions faster than range. Generally in return, I found many melee specs have shorter interrupts and more or better tools to handle many situations. Not all are equal, but this is more a discussion without a focus on individual specs.

What I was not okay was in Udir where you had to spread out on multiple bosses at all times and if you had one extra melee, that one was not going to even have hope to be part of it, not because of damage, not because another class or spec had a better tool, it was just because they couldn't get near the boss without a high chance wiping the raid. Even if that melee did double the damage of any range you'd be bringing in that place, that melee will not be able to join.

Melee unfriendly is okay, by nature of the beast I think it generally is going to be unfriendly. A creating an environment for melee to barely or never be able to enter is not.Commento di FeralsoulFeral druid here, I feel like I really am some sort of mythic animal given how there are virtually none of us in existence anymore. I haven't seen a raid composition in some time that has needed or wanted a specialized druid of my kind or really any melee for that matter; my raid has been doing Heroic some time and there has been no need for another melee at all. Everyone who was previously went ranged or decided to tank or heal because it was easier or more reliable or a role was open for that. No one fought to stay in melee, so now it is just me (again). Nevertheless, as a Feral druid I don't actually bring anything to the raid that isn't otherwise available as good if not better elsewhere.

Battle for Azeroth feels like another low point in balance and design, especially hot off the heels from Legion, and is probably one of the least fun expansions as melee. A lot of these encounters feel like they would be fun if I didn't spend so much time moving around, away, or to mechanics.Commento di Alanray43Ever thought bluzzard doesn't want melee dps in raids, and are only begrudgingly nerfing the bosses due to outrage?Commento di XaleaJust go kill Ivus in 5 minutes for your 400 piece. Problem solved. I haven't raided at all in BfA. Class design is so poor I lost interest, aside from the ranged/melee junk.Commento di omedon666Just go kill Ivus in 5 minutes for your 400 piece. Problem solved.Commento di Falcon213What Blizzard needs to finally do wrt this is stop waffling back and forth about if Mistweaver Monk and Holy Paladin are melee or ranged. They're so inconsistent it seems like they flip a coin sometimes. ESPECIALLY with Glimmer being confirmed not going anywhere, that immense gain in throughput forces a Holy Paladin into melee - and on some fights they ignore mechanics like melee do, on others they get targetted even when melee can't. Its so bizzare. Commento di shadey81range has been favored since vanilla, it isn't something new, it's just the design since alot of bosses have cleave abilities. range has downside as well, unless you are a hunter you can't maintain damage while moving so your dps drops and there is a number of fights with alot of movement. unless you are pushing a world first mythic kill there isn't actually a good reason to exclude melee dpsCommento di wordupWhat Blizzard needs to finally do wrt this is stop waffling back and forth about if Mistweaver Monk and Holy Paladin are melee or ranged. They're so inconsistent it seems like they flip a coin sometimes. ESPECIALLY with Glimmer being confirmed not going anywhere, that immense gain in throughput forces a Holy Paladin into melee - and on some fights they ignore mechanics like melee do, on others they get targetted even when melee can't. Its so bizzare. Commento di stormrage666Go Ranged.

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