Baine is a coward and a traitor. Removed
The fact of the matter is Sylvanas went from a BADASS character to a BAD character. She kills indiscriminately and only cares about her own mortality. She killed her own people because they weren't thinking how she wanted them to. Lilana Voss states herself: "We Forsaken are raised with free will. That's what separates us from the Scourge. Sylvanas Windrunner used to take pride in that distinction. But after all I have seen in this war, I must wonder if that still holds true."Blizzard clearly does not want you to like her and her choices. Every other horde character is practically screaming "RESIST! RESIST!" I feel like they are making her so over the top evil it has to be a red herring. I personally don't think her character as she is. I want to be proud of my leader and I can't with genocide and war crimes.
Alright, I'm gonna give a reply to all the comments from the faction leaders.Gallywix: "Well, I didn't see that comin'! Wish I'd known things were gonna heat up this much. I coulda charged DOUBLE for admission!"So... you feel like you're a movie theater owner, sitting there just chomping away on a bag of popcorn watching a pretty good flick, right? But, where's everyone else? Oh, they're all here, but they're all dead, and to top it off, did they pay the admission fee? No. Lemme put it this way, pal: She's enacting a hostile takeover. And YOU are one of her targets. Whatchya gonna do about it, eh?Lor'themar Theron: "I cannot fault Baine's heart, even if his actions were drastic. Through this act of defiance, he exposed a schism in the Horde that has been growing since the attack on Teldrassil. I fear that by openly opposing Sylvanas, he may have put his own people at risk. As mine would be, were I to side with him. These are perilous times. We must be cautious... and deliberate."I feel that the schism was growing since Vol'jin placed her as warchief, and was a plot thread that Blizzard left out of Legion. It only started to tear wide open with the burning of Teldrassil. Baine acted too early, that's for sure, but he is right. Just keep your head down, and if things come to blows, you know what must be done.Rohkan: "Dis be some bad juju, mon. Da Horde gotta stick together if we gonna win dis war... but Sylvanas... she not be makin' dat easy. And dis just gonna throw more fuel on da fire."You're definitely right that she's making it more difficult for the Horde to stick together. She's trying to tear it apart at the seams, spitting on Bwonsamdi's need to keep the cycle of life and death balanced. Do what Vol'jin promised to do to Garrosh back in the day. She thinks she can master death and the shadows? Prove her wrong.Talanji: "Without de Horde beside us, my people would now be at de mercy of de Alliance. We owe much to de warchief... but we will not follow her blindly. Baine Bloodhoof has shown honor and respect to de Zandalari. He must be given a chance to face his accusers and answer for dis supposed crime."Yes, you do have much to owe. But not to Sylvanas. She sent US to break you from the Stockade. She didn't show up on Stormwind's shores to free you from prison. She's been sending the Horde to do her bidding, and she's going to do the same to you. You better watch her closely. If she does something that puts you off even in the slightest, let her know. I'll let you be the judge of what she says or does after that. And yes, Baine has shown much honor and respect to you. You would have much better relations to the Horde if he were warchief.Overlord Geyarah: "She is no orc, but the warchief shows strength by punishing that tauren who deceived and betrayed her. Those who lack loyalty also lack honor."Seriously? Are you not aware that your new "warchief" has a hair-trigger emotional temper and can easily snap your neck and raise you into undeath as a mindless lackey? Your people in general have great disdain for the dead being misused in such ways. Those who lack loyalty also lack honor? Would you honor the fact that there is a chance that those who die in your service will NEVER get the rest they deserve? You disappoint me, and you discrace the code of honor that Grom held after your people beat back the Legion.Thalyssra: "Our rebellion against Elisande was just, and it earned me a blade in the back. I pray Baine does not meet a similar fate. The nightborne are still new to the Horde. Perhaps I should seek Lor'themar's council. He understands what my people have endured, and I have learned much through our conversations."My lady, you are seeing the actions of your rebellion from someone else's point of view. By that I mean you are seeing it without having said blade in your back. I fear you're going to have another one buried in it, and it's going to take your soul. Keep your back armored this time around.Mayla: "Is this what the Horde stands for? Imprisoning those who act with compassion and honor? Perhaps my people should have never left Highmountain..."Apparently, from Sylvanas's point of view. Trust me, Mayla, the Horde never ever used to be this way. Don't doubt yourself. Her end will come soon.Rexxar: "There are others who must hear of this, champion. And they will."I won't tell anyone who you're gonna tell her on. Pray she didn't kill him already.Garona: "You see what happened to Baine? To Zelling? That's why we need to lay low, keep our heads down, follow the warchief's lead. At least for now. Baine's mistake wasn't acting against Sylvanas. His mistake was acting too soon."I agree. He should have waited until the right time. But he needed to get him out before too much damage was done. But yeah, keep your head down, and wait for the right time to strike. You're the one rogue that I've actually taken a liking to.Eitrigg: "Years ago, Tirion Fordring sacrificed everything to spare my life as a matter of honor. Baine has done much the same. Are we now to punish him for it? I fear the Horde is becoming what we once hated, champion. And I do not like it."You and me both, Eitrigg. Thrall created it to be free from oppressors and ruthless murderers. If she goes through with killing him, I understand if you're more than eager to leave. She keeps going like this, any orcs who still follow her are honorless lambs.Lilian Voss: "Thomas Zelling has... had... a family in life. He made me promise to keep them safe, even after they called him a monster and shunned him for being undead. It is a promise I will continue to keep. If they ever ask how he met his fate, I will tell them that he died a hero. We Forsaken are raised with free will. That's what separates us from the Scourge. Sylvanas Windrunner used to take pride in that distinction. But after all I have seen in this war, I must wonder if that still holds true."It doesn't anymore. Not to her. She's seen the hell that awaits her, and she fears it more than anything. She's going to stop at nothing to put someone like you under her heel if it means she'll remain in the mortal realm for longer. Never forget that you have a heart. Zelling did indeed die a hero. Pray that Sylvanas doesn't find his family, and if she does, defend them with what life you have.
BACK TO VARIMATHRAS QUOTES ABOUT SYLVANAS AND PATCH 8.1.5 (THEORY)Alliance:‘‘So, your Alliance still endures. Longer than I expected, though she has already planted the seeds of its downfall. She is patient, that one.When your thrones run red with betrayal… when your holy places burn and the shattered mask hangs above your hearth… only then you will know. And it will be too late.It matters not. You are blind to the true darkness closing in around you.’’Horde‘‘So, she found me at last. Sent her underlings to finish the job.Tell me, when she seized your throne of hides and bones, was your allegiance forced? No… I’d wager you surrendered it willingly… or were convinced you did.It matters not. You are blind to the darkness in your midst.’’In the recent cutscene from 8.1 war campaign after Rastakhan’s funeral, Sylvanas raises Derek Proudmore to ‘‘adjust’’ his mind to make him kill the alliance leaders in their sleep.From what Varimathras says :’‘she has already planted the seeds of its downfall. She is patient, that one.’' is starting at the Broken Shore when she leaves the legion to kill Varyan, and Vol’jin dies so she can become warchief. and maybe she is the one who somehow whispered to Vol’jin.i think the ‘‘holy places burned’’ is Teldrassil. because of Sylvanas.And : ’‘When your thrones run red with betrayal’' will be when UNDEAD DEREK PROUDMORE KILLS ONE OR MORE ALLIANCE LEADERS. Maybe Jaina, maybe her mother… who knows.I think this is her big vengeance plan to the alliance and the living.Any thoughts ? sorry for bad english.
Overlord Geyarah knows tha wae ^^
Oh man. I haven't played Horde Campaign because Sylvanas is not herself. I am weary of giving it a chance based on what I read in the books re: desolate council. She had already warned Baine when he was corresponding with Anduin secretly. This doesn't bode well. I hope the remaining Horde leaders step up to the plate and defend/come to Baine's aid. Nothing Sylvanas has done bares any resemblence to honor or necessary. None of this was necessary - at this time, at least, and possibly not ever. Sargeras may not have gotten precisely what he wanted... but he is getting something out of it. If he could only see.