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News Round Up: Scroll of Resurrection Changes, RAF for Monks

Pubblicato 09/08/2012 alle 11:06 da perculia

Grifone SpettraleViverna dei Venti SpettraleVolpinaEncomio di Tol BaradtweetedTol Barad

has been significantly changed: "The net result will be that stacks by the amount of DPS being thrown at you over 20 sec. There is no cap."

Parola del Potere: Conforto and Shadow Priest changes have led to an extremely impassioned debate in Priest threads.

Tons of 25s heroic testing happening in these upcoming few days--check out our Dungeon Journals to learn about all the new bosses.

Scroll of Resurrection Update

Blizzard

With the upcoming release of Mists of Pandaria, the Scroll of Resurrection system will be updated to accommodate the new talent specialization system, monk class, and pandaren race. The following changes will be made in an upcoming patch prior to the expansion’s release:

The Scroll of Resurrection leveling system will be updated to work with Mists of Pandaria’s new specialization and talent system.
Resurrected characters will no longer have their talents preselected for them; however, a specialization will still available to be selected prior to entering the game.
Players who receive a Scroll of Resurrection will not be able to apply rewards (e.g. boost to level 80) to monk characters.
Players who send or receive a Scroll of Resurrection will not be able to apply rewards (e.g. in-game mount, boost to level 80) to pandaren characters that have not yet chosen a faction.

To learn more about the Scroll of Resurrection, visit the support site and read the FAQ.

Zarhym

We're not making any changes to the way RaF bonuses function, which means monks won't be excluded from receiving the benefits of RaF when Mists of Pandaria is released.
Will they still get realm first achievements?

Click the cut to read the rest of the blue posts in the news round up!Beta Raid Testing Schedule

Watcher

Over the next few days, we will be testing quite a number of raid encounters.

Each encounter should be available at approximately the listed times below for all Beta Test Realms, regardless of suggested geographical region.

Friday, August 10th
Feng the Accursed (Segrete Mogu'shan) - 25 Player Heroic
10:30 PDT (13:30 EDT, 19:30 CEST)

Blade Lord Ta'yak (Cuore della Paura) - 25 Player Normal
12:00 PDT (15:00 EDT, 21:00 CEST)

Garalon (Cuore della Paura) - 25 Player Heroic
13:30 PDT (16:30 EDT, 22:30 CEST)

Elegon (Segrete Mogu'shan) - 25 Player Normal
16:00 PDT (19:00 EDT, 01:00 CEST)

Saturday, August 11th
Wind Lord Mel'jarak (Cuore della Paura) - 25 Player Heroic
10:30 PDT (13:30 EDT, 19:30 CEST)

Protectors of the Endless (Terrazza dell'Eterna Primavera) - 25 Player Heroic
12:00 PDT (15:00 EDT, 21:00 CEST)

Gara'jal the Spiritbinder (Segrete Mogu'shan) - 25 Player Heroic
13:30 PDT (16:30 EDT, 22:30 CEST)

Imperial Vizier Zor'lok (Cuore della Paura) - 25 Player Heroic
15:00 PDT (18:00 EDT, 24:00 CEST)

Sunday, August 12th
Amber-Shaper Un'sok (Cuore della Paura) - 25 Player Heroic
10:30 PDT (13:30 EDT, 19:30 CEST)

Spirit Kings (Segrete Mogu'shan) - 25 Player Heroic
12:00 PDT (15:00 EDT, 21:00 CEST)

Tsulong(Terrazza dell'Eterna Primavera) - 25 Player Heroic
14:00 PDT (17:00 EDT, 23:00 CEST)

Monday, August 13th
Stone Guard (Segrete Mogu'shan) - 25 Player Heroic
10:30 PDT (13:30 EDT, 19:30 CEST)

Will of the Emperor (Segrete Mogu'shan) - 25 Player Heroic
13:00 PDT (16:00 EDT, 22:00 CEST)

Lei Shi (Terrazza dell'Eterna Primavera) - 25 Player Heroic
16:00 PDT (19:00 EDT, 01:00 CEST)

As always, this testing schedule is very fluid and subject to the realities of a beta environment. We might have to change the time of a testing session or cancel it entirely, due to bugs, builds, server hardware issues, etc. Keep an eye on this forum for the latest information, and thank you in advance for testing and providing feedback.

Given the breadth of this testing session, it's perhaps more likely than usual that one of these sessions will need to be rescheduled or switched to a different boss. We'll keep this thread updated with any such modifications.

10s vs 25s

Taepsilum

Hello Maracuja,
As you can see from all the answers you got on this thread, there are many reasons for having so many 10 man raids going on right now.

I would also add that we're in "low season" at the moment, DS has been running for quite a while and a lot of players are waiting for MoP, so there's less people willing to raid right now.

Also, on top of all those facts you still have to take into account the simple personal preferences of players, while for some people, 25 man dungeons might be appealing, for others, 10 man's are just much more enjoyable, and there are many reasons for that to happen, it’s easier to get a better group cohesion, it can be much calmer and less messier, they’re the usual choice for groups of friends, it’s easier to get 10 really good players and coordinate them than 25, provides a visually smoother experience (it’s less cpu and gpu intensive, this is particularly relevant to players without high-end PCs), etc…
I suspect that we'll see an increase in the amount of 25 man guilds when MoP launches, but 10 man will probably still remain as the most popular choice, there are just too many things in its favour.

We just like to give players more options to choose from, that's why 25 and 10 share the same lockout, encounter difficulty (similar but not the same) and rewards, it's fine if we see more 10 man's than 25's, it’s all about giving players freedom of choice.

Blizzard at gamescon2012

Blizzard

You’ll definitely want to stop by the Blizzard booth at gamescom 2012 to try out our newest games and witness the array of entertaining activities on our stage. But you’ll also have the chance to participate in our contests and quizzes to win some incredible prizes from our partners!

The lucky winner of the Blizzard Costume Contest will take home an XMG P502 PRO Gaming Notebook from Schenker, some awesome gaming gear from SteelSeries, and a Mega Bloks Deathwing’s Stormwind Assault set. Charm our judges in the World of Warcraft Dance Contest to win an NVIDIA GeForce GTX 6 Series graphics card, a Mega Bloks Goblin Zeppelin Ambush set, and SteelSeries gaming gear. Runners-up for both contests can also look forward to more SteelSeries gear, T-shirts from J!NX, Cryptozoic loot cards, Mega Bloks packs, and more.

The winners of the Mists of Pandaria Leveling Contest will walk away with a Mega Bloks Sindragosa and the Lich King set, while runners-up could also snag some swag from SteelSeries, J!NX, and Mega Bloks.

In addition to our contests, you could also be chosen to participate in the Blizzard quizzes happening several times each day for the chance to win some novels and calendars from Panini, as well as more amazing loot from our partners.

Head to the Blizzard booth to play our games for yourselves, and you can also try out the latest Blizzard licensed peripherals from Razer and SteelSeries.

Visit our Prizes page for details on the goods up for grabs, and check out our Activities page for more information on our contests and a full stage schedule.

We’ll see you next week at gamescom!

Silences and Interrupts

Taepsilum

I agree with you, it's quite obvious that using silence requires less skill than using normal interrupts but PvP Balance is a very tricky subject to deal with and one that can get extremely complex given the colossal amount of abilities, classes and specs that need to be equalized. I think we have to put a little more faith into development, if silences still exist it's because in a proper testing environment they seem to make sense and be required, if they were to be removed, a lot of other changes would have to follow to make up for the CC loss it opened up on the classes that depended most on them.

For Mists of Pandaria, we’ve tried to reduce the amount of available interrupt abilities across the board, and we certainly don’t intend to increase the amount of silences that already exist.

Old Raid Gold Nerfs

Taepsilum

We know that a lot of players enjoy soloing old content and we certainly don't mean to discourage players from continuing to do so but the reality is that there were certain raids or parts of raids that were incredibly lucrative for solo players.

We could do a series of hotfixes to take care of those farming areas one by one, but that wouldn’t make much sense since we’re about to launch a new expansion and we have an opportunity to deal with the situation now in a much more effective way. So to stop the impact that soloing raids has over the economy, we think it makes much more sense to change the formula for the way the gold drops across the board.

Soloing will continue to be quite profitable if you take into consideration AoE looting and vendoring drops (the rates have not changed on item drops).

I do realize this isn’t probably what you all wanted to hear and that it’s hard when a nerf is made to something you enjoy doing, but the fact remains this really did impact the economy in ways we feel we shouldn’t have allowed in the first place.

We realize there are certainly a few other things that might also impact the economy that might still need to be taken care of, but that’s not a rational reason why we shouldn’t be fixing this one if we can.

We really don’t want to kill the fun out of running old raids, why would we undermine an experience (even if unintended) that players enjoy? It certainly doesn’t make sense, so keeping that in mind I really want to make sure you are confident about your feedback being heard and about it getting to the developers.

Also, remember we’re still in Beta, things can still change, numbers can be tuned, etc… so please do continue to voice your opinion and keep giving us feedback in a constructive and collaborative manner, we both share the same goal of improving our game and developers are always open to better ideas.

Is there a chance we are going to completely revert this? Probably not, can it be adjusted? Certainly, make a good case, with some backed up arguments and numbers and hey, devs are reasonable people, they will hear what you have to say.
I can definitely understand how frustrating this must be to some of you and I really appreciate the way you continue to keep this thread constructive and bringing up very insightful observations.

Like I said, we still have plenty of time to do any kind of tuning or changes to the game before it goes live and your feedback might just be that extra factor that can turn the tides on certain decisions. I just would like to emphasize how persuasive careful and thought-out feedback can actually be, so please, if you have anything constructive and new to add to this topic, please let your voice be heard.

While I share some of your concerns on the amount of gold dropping from bosses possibly being a little bit on the low side, and I must say that I haven’t personally tested this myself on the beta, I was wondering if any of you with beta access has already tried to see just how much gold one can make by actually vendoring all the loot that you can get inside a raid, since AOE looting probably made it time efficient enough to kill all the trash packs instead of skipping them and going straight to bosses.

Also, I would like to shed some light on the constant comparison that is being made between playing the auction house and looting gold from bosses. I think this can be one of those fallacious arguments that can easily slip through as a valid argument and needs to be addressed.

There is a huge difference between these two, which is, playing the auction house doesn’t “create gold", looting does.

Just like in real life economics, adding gold to the system creates what is called inflation, prices rise because the amount of goods remains unaltered, while at the same time the amount of gold rises. So if players have more gold, they will be willing to spend more on the same quantity of items, and since prices are totally dependent on the laws of supply and demand, prices will consequently rise.
We can compare looting to doing dailies though, that argument works, since both generate gold, but we can't compare it with the auction house, that’s only a transaction of goods and not a generation of goods (actually this isn’t totally true, since there is an AH cut, so it can actually be considered a soft gold sink).

Consuming Content Too Fast

Draztal

There's a broad spectrum of players on this game. And the LFR is interesting to some of those players, just as Heroic, soul-crushing bosses are interesting to a different set of players, and then you get everything in between. The community is way more different that what some of you think it is. Even the motivation behind each of us is entirely different in some cases. Some might raid for the loot, some might raid for the lore, others for the achievements, others for the challenge, others for the social experience of tackling content with their friends... and so on.

The only people that don't seem to understand this are either the ones entering this thread and bashing people like me for being "elitist" or a "special snowflake" without me trying to be one, and the other two that deliberately refuses to understand us / avoids the good questions / behave badly - are an MVP and the representative known as Draztal.

It isn't only that. Back then you had a mountain to climb, with several smaller tops you couldn't skip. No matter when you started, the mountain would be waiting.herei dont want LFR on the same lockout. i want it removed.

if players dont put in enough time and effort, they dont deserve to be rewarded with content.extra mechanics. take rogues and druids, stealth through the dungeon. take a shaman healer, use or whatever on him / her, they get stealth. run through the dungeon and kill crap.

thats basically your extra mechanics.Why should "bud" have similar rewards than those that dedicate alot more time into mastering the game?
Its like paying for a vacation while the next gets maybe a day less of the same vacation but has to pay alot less. I would feel like getting kicked in the balls.Curiosity:
Initially this mode appealed to me. And then it dawned. Let's say I make my A-team for this, run through it, get gold.

What reason is there to go back? In other words, what is the replay value of this extra mode (rehashed nonetheless)?How hypocritical of you, as always.
Challenge mode's purpose is to finish the dungeon as fast as possible. That means that any way to do it is to be taken into account in order to do it asap.Honestly for challenge modes I was just expecting and wanting really tough bosses/pulls. Not arcade style speed runs.WoW Summer Challenge: Zul'aman/Zul'gurub

Kaivax

Every week this summer, we’re challenging you to get together with a few friends to explore a part of Azeroth that you may not have seen in a while, or perform a feat that you may have never done. We’re calling them World of Warcraft Summer Challenges, and we’re going to be playing along with you as we hunt down rare achievements, get screenshots of amazing bosses, and try to find some rare gear for our transmogrification sets.

This week's challenge: Zul'aman and Zul'gurub

In this thread, we're talking about this week's challenge, posting stories about experiences completing it, and linking to screenshots.

Furthermore, if you've thought of something awesome to do while exploring the troll dungeons (that we didn't include in the blog post), this is the place to say so!

Rep Grinds in Mists

Ghostcrawler

Is there a reason you're FORCING us to do daily quests for rep instead of allowing us to CHOOSE to grind the rep in dungeons?

Labirinto delle OmbreMecanarBotanicaKlaxxiShandarenLFR in MoP

Taepsilum

I think this is an extremely sensitive topic and I would like to approach it very carefully.

First I think we have to realize that WoW is not just any game, it unleashes very passionate feelings on its players. It’s been a part of everyone’s life for so long that it has acquired a status that sometimes can rival many things in real life, it’s an amazing game, it really is, and you know this, otherwise you wouldn’t be here wasting your precious time discussing about how to improve it.
But you do take that time to help us improve our games, and you deserve to be heard, more so, we really want and need to hear what you have to say, you are the reason we have a community department. One of the biggest advantages of having this level of interaction is that we can act as intermediaries between you and the developers, and this is where your feedback comes in.

We realize that LFR is a controversial feature and you can rest assured that we are paying full attention to the impact it has over our community. Some of us do share a lot of your concerns, but as always, we’re all different players, with different perspectives and objectives, so opinions on the matter will vary greatly.

What I really want to emphasize here is that we really do hear all of you.

As a company we obviously need to have a common vision, planning, strategy, and goal, but understand that individually, most of us play our games just as passionately as you do. We all experience what you experience and this includes developers, game designers and project managers, and most importantly, we all have our own different opinions. It’s from the gathering and discussion of these opinions and the ones from our players that together we can reach a common vision with the common goal of making our games the best that they can possibly be.
Still you must realize that game designers can’t take in all feedback and apply it directly to the game, that’s why they were selected as game designers, they are great at making decisions, and these can be really tough to make sometimes, which is why changes usually cause controversy.

When LFR came out I too had quite a few concerns about it, just like I’m sure many of you had, and obviously, still have to this day.

LFR is still considered a new feature, we’re constantly evaluating its receptivity and its role on filling the gap between casual players and raiding without having it ruin anyone else’s game experience, it’s currently being tweaked for MoP and I’m sure it will continue to be adjusted until devs are completely satisfied with it.

Having said that, I would like give a few updates about LFR and its future in MoP.

We know that currently some guilds will feel that they aren’t maximizing their potential if they don’t run LFR to get particular pieces of gear and tier set bonuses when they’re starting to progress through DS, but for MoP you can expect LFR to provide very little competitive advantage (if any) to those guilds and here’s why:

We’re delaying LFR by one week, we don’t think there is a real need to delay it further than that. It would be an unnecessary punishment to players not in organized guilds because chances are that the real hardcore guilds out there will be able to clear Segrete Mogu'shan on normal difficulty within the first week of its release, which by the time they will be eligible to run LFR, they will also be eligible to start progressing on Heroic mode.
We must not forget that there is also another reason why those guilds feel that they’re currently “forced” to run LFR, and that reason is, because they can increase their members' chances of winning items by playing the loot system, which they won’t be able to do anymore in Mists of Pandaria with the changes we’ve introduced to the looting system.

Also here’s a brief plan about how raids will open on the LFR:
- Segrete Mogu'shan will be split into two tiers, and each tier will have three bosses. Both of those tiers will be available one week after the release of the normal raid, and you will have to clear the first tier before being able to queue for the second one.
- Cuore della Paura will work in a similar way and will be split into two dungeons for LFR, each with three bosses.
- Terrazza dell'Eterna Primavera will be one single dungeon queue.

Beta Class Balance Analysis Changes

Ghostcrawler

We changed how works.

is intended to let tanks generate additional damage and threat as content levels rise, despite not gearing for it (or at least not primarily). We're changing the design to let play better with active mitigation, but the new design has some other advantages many of you will like.

As most all of you know by now, the idea of active mitigation is that the buttons a tank presses directly contribute to mitigation and survival. In some cases, this is timing-centric, such as Assalto della Morte. In others, it’s both timing-centric and also involves balancing how you spend your resources among multiple abilities, such as vs. Rigenerazione Furiosa or Scudo Saldo vs. Shield Barrier. In the latter case, it’s important that both abilities are compelling and compete well with each other. We are changing to let those abilities be balanced.

I'm going to use (a short duration large dodge buff) and Rigenerazione Furiosa (a large instant heal) as examples. Getting the balance between SD and FR right is challenging. We want SD to win on average, but you’re limited on how often you can use it, and it’s not necessarily reliable -- sometimes you really need a heal NOW, and so FR is the right button. SD should win, but FR shouldn’t be too far behind, and they should scale similarly.

SD scales with the incoming damage: if BossA hits you for 60k, and BossB hits you for 120k, then SD is twice as valuable (in absolute terms) on BossB than on BossA. FR scales with your attack power: even a few 5man trash mobs will cap out your , so your AP will be the same on BossA as on BossB. Rigenerazione Furiosa isn’t any stronger on BossB than BossA.

On top of that, AP and boss damage scales differently as ilevel rises. We tried a solution to that problem where Rigenerazione Furiosa scaled exponentially with AP in the last build. That has worked fairly well, but still failed at keeping SD and FR balanced when boss damage was significantly different from the baseline we used as a tuning point. For example, 25-player raid bosses hit twice as hard as 10-player raid bosses, which makes SD twice as valuable.

But wasn’t this post supposed to be about ? Currently, increases your AP by 5% of the damage taken, stacking up to the cap, which happens quickly. We are changing Vengeance to increase AP equal to 5% of the damage you take for 20 sec. This buff will "roll" so that as it gets refreshed the unused part is added to the new buff, similar to how Maestria: Incendio or Noncuranza work. The net result will be that stacks by the amount of DPS being thrown at you over 20 sec. There is no cap.

Additional nuances:

-- Avoidance will not count against you. Avoiding an attack will extend the current stack back to 20 sec (as if you were hit again for the same DPS).
-- Blocks, absorbs, Noncuranza and Scudo del Virtuoso will also not count against you. The damage before these effects is used for the calculation.
-- To reduce ramp up time, we bump you up to halfway to whatever your average level would be based on each individual hit. Essentially, we skip the first 10 sec of ramping.
-- Tank damage in 5-player groups will decrease. We think this is a good chance because it is weird and demoralizing when tanks consistently top damage meters in dungeons.
-- Tank damage in 25-player groups will increase. We think this is a good change because it makes tank DPS as relevant in 25-player raids as it is in 10-player raids.
-- With this change, Brewmaster damage will be extremely overpowered. We will fix it, but you may get a build where they are ludicrously good.

The rest of this post is nitty gritty details for theorycrafters. You do NOT need to read or understand this in order to effectively play a tank.

-- Whenever you get hit, is added based on the damage of the hit before block, crit block, absorbs, Noncuranza, and Scudo del Virtuoso.
-- Whenever you avoid an attack from a mob where MobLevel>=TankLevel-3, your existing is extended to 20sec remaining.
-- Based on how hard you’re hit, we estimate how high e’s equilibrium point will be: DamageTaken / 1.5.
-- If you’re not at least half that high on , we bump you up to that amount
-- The new value is calculated as: 0.05 * DamageTaken + Old * OldSecondsRemaining / 20
-- Rigenerazione Furiosa and Shield Barrier’s formulae have changed to:
Rigenerazione Furiosa at 60 rage: max(2*(AP-Agi*2), Sta*2.5)
Shield Barrier at 60 rage: max(2*(AP-Str*2), Sta*2.5)
-- Yes, these do mean that it uses your AP without base AP from Str/Agi (but does still slightly include AP from Agi/Str when you’ve got the 10% AP raid buff or other +%AP buffs).
-- Please feel free to ask any questions you have about the mechanical details of this.

General Changes

Ghostcrawler

We have made several adjustments based on player feedback, raid testing, and fixing some bugs. Some of the changes were made to keep secondary stats scaling appropriately and some were when specs were doing too much damage. Here's a quick cheat sheet for where we are. Even "tuned" does not mean set in stone and ready for ship.

Priest -- Shadow roughly tuned.
Warlock -- roughly tuned except for Sacrifice.
Mage -- roughly tuned except Arcane and .
Druid -- Feral and Balance tuned except for .
Paladin -- Ret roughly tuned.
Rogue -- tuned (but we'll look at Assassination numbers posted above).
Shaman -- tuned.
Hunter -- tuned.

We are working on monk, warrior and DK next.
When you log into the big rule changing patch, our intent is not for your DPS to change much. Hunters may be in a special situation because of the expertise change -- I'll have to dig into that more.

However, when you jump to level 87, it wouldn't surprise me for your DPS to drop because all of your combat ratings change. This is just one of the unfortunate aspects of the way our gear progression works. The alternative, at least until we come up with something better, is your crit chance just increases each expansion until it hits 100%. It also sounds like you're using quest greens, which might be higher ilevel, but probably can't compete with all the gems, enchants and set bonuses of Anima del Drago gear (assuming you have some). Once you reach 90 and start getting blue and purple gear, your DPS will grow higher than it is currently on live. A lot.

Posting specific numbers (even rounded off ones, like "I do 47K") would help.

Cavaliere della Morte

Ghostcrawler

An update for Blood death knights: We’re going to try returning the Crimson Scourge passive, with a minor tweak. You have a 10% chance on melee hit against a Blood Plague diseased target to make your next or Morte e Distruzione free.
To add to this: Is it possible to let Crimson Scourge build up charges (I was thinking of up to 2) to carry over between packs?
And does CS reset Morte e Distruzione's CD as well?

Also, can we assume Morte e Distruzione/'s cast with Crimson Scourge will not generate RP so it doesn't mess with the current tank balance?
Nope, no charges; we want sitting on the proc to be a damage loss, but an option when you want to make sure you have one up for a soon to be incoming pack of mobs. It currently has a 15 sec duration. It does not reset Morte e Distruzione’s cooldown. If it did, you’d almost always use it on Morte e Distruzione; we want you to use it for a mix of Morte e Distruziones and s. And no, the free ones will not generate RP.

Ghostcrawler

So, with regards to moonkin dots and our new nuke-crit refresh mechanic, I'm assuming that's not an "indefinite refresh" model, so there's no recalculation. What I'm wondering is, when we get 2s, are we getting 2s of hasted dot, or are we merely getting one more tick, no matter our haste? Again, assuming it's 2s of whatever haste you had, so it could potentially be 2 extra ticks at high enough haste ratings.

Related to that, the moonkin 4pc adds 4s to our dots. For the sake of calculating break points, do we add 4s/2 ticks to the dot duration, or is that calculated in a funny way? In other words, will we have to calculate new breakpoints for 4pc versus no 4pc, or will the 4pc dots be calculated something like 14s + 4s (7 ticks + 2 ticks) for the sake of breakpoints?

You were supposed to nerf not the base spells. Nerfing mastery and the base spell damage coefficents., for Balance, just favors the continuing problem.This recent change also makes Anima della Foresta a no brainer over for the same reason. The reduction from 18 second moonfire and sunfire, to 14 second DoTs makes it so you can not transition in one set of dots to a new eclipse. Because of this you will have to choose Anima della Foresta to keep dps in pace.P.S. Why are treants even there?Question about the Item - Druid T14 Guardian 4P Bonus bonus.

Does the 10% to mean:

0.45 * 1.1 = 0.495
or
0.45 + .1 = 0.55I dont know if its intended but the last spell cast in ether Eclissi is not buffed when fully cast. For example, when casting Ira Silvana with 15 or less solar energy the spell says its buffed however when the cast completes it uses the unbuffed damage. The same for Cometa Arcana and in lunar. Its very misleading.Feral PvP on the other hand, needs some help. Our defense is almost non existent and the SR situation is just awkward at best. Feral PvP HP looks like a roller coaster... falling and rising fast, it's stressful and isn't very fun to be honest.Istinto di SopravvivenzaCacciatore

Ghostcrawler

Is there a design purpose in why aimed shot, and Sbarramento all suppress autoshot? It seems strange to me that the 2.0 cast time shots do not and the 2.9 and 3.0 ones do. For MM in particular, it seems to conflict with the design of the mastery, since suppressing autoshot will reduce procs and long cast time shots mean less chances for procs as well. It also potentially creates a micromanagement benefit that I thought was intended to be removed when autoshot was changed to work while moving.

Tiro MiratoTiro MiratoFirst, this is a great thread. Thank you for both the moderation and responses. I hope you have similar threads even after MoP gets released. A few hunter comments and issues:

- Bestia Feroce based damage scaling was reduced from 0.5715 to 0.3572. That wasn't documented, so I wanted to confirm that it was intentional.Bestia Feroce- The pet focus regen appears to be 5* the hunter's focus regen multiplier. Is that correct?- Ordine di Morte doesn't refund focus on a miss/dodge. Because of the same massive dodge issue, it seems like it should (just like other focus-costing shots). What's your plan here?Ordine di Morte- didn't used to cost a GCD. With a GCD, it interferes with a smooth rotation in BM and is simming as a very poor value CD (~1%). Is the GCD intentional?Frenesia- was simming fairly low compared to just not using it at all in most specs. This seems partly because it suppresses autoattack so the opportunity cost is high. Are there any plans to change ?I've been trying to get accurate pet focus regen numbers but it's difficult to test accurately in game given the limits of the display and the fact that none of it ends up in the log. Currently it looks like the base pet focus regen is around 5 fps, but is it possible a blue poster could confirm if that's the correct number?

It would also be extremely helpful if pet focus regen (and crit chance for that matter) were added to the pet display.

Also if I'm testing correctly, it looks like does not increase pet focus regen (even though it is called haste and not attack speed). Which haste and attack speed bonuses increase regen for pets has never been incredibly clear or consistent. The terminology doesn't seem to be a reliable clue and measuring pet focus regen precisely is difficult. Is there a chance of this getting clarified at some point?Mago

Ghostcrawler

Got a quick question about the 3% crit chance reduction against +3 level targets: is it calculated before or after crit multipliers?

Fire: would it be, e.g., 25% * 1.5 - 3% = 34.5%, or (25% - 3%) * 1.5 = 33%?

Frost w/Frantumazione: 25% * 2 + 50% - 3% = 97%, or (25% - 3%) * 2 + 50% = 94%?

My assumption is that it's subtracted after the other calculations, but as this could have a meaningful impact on simulation numbers, it'd be good to know for sure.

FrantumazionePalla di FuocoMassa CriticaMonaco

Ghhostcrawler

Any there any plans to change the way refresh is managed for Brewmasters?

What I mean in regard to this is how is unable to refresh to the full 12 sec duration unless it is 6.0 seconds or below. At the beginning of a application you can get it to 12 seconds. However at any point above 6.1 seconds will never refresh to 12 seconds. This makes it very frustrating because you have to watch the time on to be below the 6.0 mark to reapply it. I understand a Brewmaster wouldn't want to waste Chi by reapplying too early or often but even at 6.1 seconds it will just waste 2 Chi without increasing duration to 12 seconds.

I wouldn't even mind if you say had at 7 seconds and did a BoK that it went only to 12 seconds (the cap right now of time) than simply eating our 2 Chi and that's that. However, I think it'd be best if any reapplication of above 6 seconds should automatically refresh it to 12 seconds.

Scudo SaldoScudo del VirtuosoCalcio dell'OscuramentoCurious about this statement. Given that Brewmasters' damage taken (and therefore under the new model as I understand it) is highly correlated to their Birra Purificatrice use, what is it that their damage is going to be tuned around? As is, I can tweak my damage taken by around +/- 30% by just varying my PB usage. How frequently will you assume PB is used when tuning our (Brewmasters') damage?Birra PurificatriceNoncuranzaNoncuranzaNoncuranzaWhile on the topic of Birra Purificatrice, can it be documented somewhere what the colors (green, yellow, red) of the Noncuranza stack mean, exactly?NoncuranzaIs it your intent that WW monks use Pugni della Furia as a part of their single target dps rotation? I'm sure you have read the issues that the majority of monks have with a channeled melee ability in raids. Perhaps a glyph that allowed you to channel it while moving but would also remove the stun would make the move itself more viable?What is the motivation behind taking away Spirit -> Hit conversion for all healing spex except Mistweaver? It's a perk I really appreciated in Cata.

You have bandaided the issue in PvE by kitchen-sinking the abilities healers are expected to use, but the spell-specific bonuses don't help PvP or more specialized PvE situations, where heals need to use their entire control toolkit, not just spam Punizione.Is there a reason why Ondata del Chi has a cooldown?Ondata del ChiOndata del ChiOndata del ChiScarica del ChiPaladino

Ghostcrawler

Two the changes to was this fixing the bug? If so that is a pretty significant bug. A lot of recent logs showed being ahead of every other spell or at the very top of usage. As some suggested this isn't exactly a gamebreaking nerf to the class but it raises a good question I think is that are people going to go back to Guaritore Altruista?

I checked a few dps calculators, and it seems that while is indeed scaling with AP, isn't. It's only scaling with Base Weapon Damage. Is that intended as well?In the same vein as Detonazione Elementale for Resto Shamans, can Prisma Sacro be added to the passive for Holy Paladins? Testing it on a Raiding Target Dummy, it misses just enough to be an annoyance, if I wanted to use it as an AoE heal for the tanks and melee.What is the vision and role of Martello dell'Ira? Like many of my fellow Paladins in this thread we are confused as to the direction this spell is going. The spell has previously been an execute and like all the other executes in the game, it was a fun hard hitting ability when we were fortunate to get the chance to use it. My concern is with the relationship with Ira Consacrata and it being an execute ability. Is Ira Consacrata causing the nerfs to this ability?Prot Paladin DPS (that phrase alone caused me to lol) seems to have taken a hit as a result of Ret tuning. Judgement and feel overly weak now. SotR has always felt weak (but is a bit more spammable and has a defensive buff). is now really hurting compared to Guaritore Altruista.Guaritore AltruistaParola di GloriaLuce dell'AlbaParola di GloriaSacerdote

Ghostcrawler

An update for priests: we're going to reduce the cost of all heals by 10%, reduce the mana gain from , but buff Discipline to 50% . We're also making Infusione di Potere priest only, for fear that priests will be asked to choose that talent to benefit someone else.
AoE heals that hit more than 6 targets have their total healing multiplied by (6/TargetCount). For example, if you heal 6 targets with a , it may do 1000 healing to each (total of 6000). If you heal 8 targets, it would do 750 to each (total of 6000). The net result is that AoE heals heal for the same total amount on more than 6 targets, but it is split between all of the targets. Additionally, pets do not count toward the TargetCount. If you heal 8 targets and 2 pets with the same Bloom, all 8 players and 2 pets would each get 750 (total of 6000 to players, 1500 to pets).
Renew seems to be benefiting from 15% bonus when in -- akin to it being considered a Single Target Heal. Additionally, it also seems to be auto-refreshing (and thus, gaining an additional tick).

The 15% benefit to Rinnovamento from is intended. We decided it made more sense to associate Rinnovamento with and not . Rinnovamento refreshing itself to get that extra tick is not intended and we will fix.
From the simulations I've done, t14h shadow was sitting very middle of the pack post DP nerf. It was really quite acceptable at 109k dps in T14h (Even with some other classes up around the 120k mark)

Ghostcrawler

This is a combination of responses to some points in this thread and a couple of others, such as the "bench" thread.

When we stop seeing posts that rank Parola del Potere: Conforto priests ahead of Plagiamente priests, then we'll feel like the talents are in a better spot. Not every priest wants to have to cast nukes as part of their healing rotation, and we are just not going to make Parola del Potere: Conforto mandatory. If you enjoy the style, awesome. That talent is for you. You shouldn't have to take it though. (When I heal, I tend to play the mana game a lot, because healing just enough without overheating is fun for me. Rather than overheal, I'll gladly sit idle a lot rather than waste a heal. Parola del Potere: Conforto would work well for me. Other healers, even some I play with, want to stay more active and keep spells queued up and cancel them or just keep everyone topped off. That's cool too. The game supports lots of different healing styles, except for the one where you just spam your highest HPS spell and nothing else, which hasn't been supported since Icecrown.)

We're not noticing a big longevity problem between priests and druids. Shaman seemed a little low so we are examining the impact of the Water Shield and Resurgence chances. We may also lower the cost of Healing Rain. It is definitely a challenging thing to sim out how much mana the various healers use because it has a lot to do with spell choice. You should be able to use your more expensive heals somewhat, but you should also be casting a lot of Heals as well.

We don't feel like mana regen in 5-player dungeons is at all a problem. Mana felt tighter (too tight in retrospect) in Cataclysm launch. If you are running out while healing a dungeon boss, I would suspect it's because you are using Flash and it's equivalents too often or you're just used to the rapid mana regen of full Dragon Soul gear. It's possible mana is tighter in raids, especially 25 player, but we're running a lot of raid tests right now and it's just not a common theme we're hearing from those players, which again leads me to want to understand what is going on for players who feel they are struggling. Again, being as specific as possible would help. Which bosses? How far into the fight are you struggling for mana? How quickly are you having to Shadow Fiend? Are you wearing Mists quest greens, Mists PvP gear, or scaled up Dragon Soul raid gear?

Returning Holy Concentration to a higher value is extremely unlikely. We felt that created more class balance problems than it solved. We are more likely to lower priest and or shaman heal costs if we think it is needed. We just don't want to be in a situation where we improve priest and shaman healing now and are then forced to nerf them after launch. Nobody will be happy with that outcome.

I'll dig into the "Realistic 60 sec Holy priest average" posted. You shouldn't feel, with any mana talent choice, that are you are sitting around a lot too scared to heal. (The example I used for my healing style above is just one play style, not the only valid way to play. I could overheal a lot more and still be fine.) The risk should be that any time you replace a Heal with a Cura Rapida that it's going to hurt a little, but sometimes that is still the right call. A priest casting nothing but Heal should last indefinitely. That isn't true of say a paladin who uses a lot of free spells. PW:Shield for Disc is a little more risky. It has a lot of benefits, but overall you should be rewarded for shielding folks who are taking damage and not just throwing it around indiscriminately on the raid. The former should benefit you through Rapture. The latter should slowly run you OOM.
So I have two questions now. Firstly are Disc Priests really expected to spend a quarter of a fight doing nothing? Secondly, why are some classes, bugs aside, allowed to have the room for a huge percentage of over healing when some of us can barely do our job with minimal over healing?

And, uh. Eruzione di Luce?PlagiamenteParola del Potere: ConfortoEruzione di LuceNo offence GC but all Priests are having to play the game the way you prefer we are having to stand idle, as in not healing.Parola del Potere: ConfortoParola del Potere: ConfortoParola del Potere: ConfortoIn other words, in , every point of mana you spend on Parola Sacra: Serenità buys about 41% fewer hitpoints for your raid than it would if you waited and spent it on PoH instead.Preghiera di CuraParola Sacra: SerenitàPreghiera di CuraCura RapidaCuraYet you have made nuking mandatory for Disc even without Parola del Potere: Conforto. The buff we get from Espiazione/ cannot be ignored as Beta stands right now and even then we are struggling to compete with other healers, even Holy Priests, with the 25% buff from .PunizioneEspiazioneCrzed explains far better than I can why Espiazione/ is now mandatory (he's talking specifically about here)ContrizioneFuoco SacroContrizionePretty much the same thing I was going to post. You say PoH is the right answer for 3 people and in many fights tested so far in 25 man there is never a shortage of groups with 3 people where PoH can be used with pretty low levels of overhealing. So we're using the spell you say is the correct answer but if we keep using it, even stacked in spirit gear with all spirit gems and buffs, it's not something we can sustain for very long. That's where the idle time comes from. We have to hold back and fill time with Parola del Potere: Conforto or just passive regen to be able to sustain the right answer over a 6 minute encounter.Parola del Potere: ConfortoParola del Potere: ConfortoKael and I illustrated all of these situations quite clearly. I am actually now offended that you posted this and did not real this.As for Espiazione/, that is a terrible idea... As posted above, Penancing the boss is a trade off. You give up three stacks of for some AoE capabilities to Contrizione (not likely, but maybe) and three stacks of . Making it 1 or 0 stacks makes Espiazione/ even harder to use... If you want us to use Espiazione/ less, because you don't think we are "balanced" around it, either increase the CD to a minute or reduce the bonus to 15%. Else, keep it and let people Contrizione for stacks... that's just mean thinking of removing thatContrizioneFuoco SacroContrizioneParola del Potere: ConfortoLook at the logs I provided, without ~20% time spend solacing I wouldn't have the mana to be competitive.Actually they're saying that by not spending that mana on heal and instead idling/solacing, you set yourself up for larger returns later through using other spells. It doesn't make you regen any faster, but you're able to do more healing in the same window of time, increasing your efficiency. This is why Parola del Potere: Conforto feels required. Nerfing Parola del Potere: Conforto does nothing to fix the problem with our sustained efficiency, it just brings our burst potential more in line. No one is saying they like spamming Parola del Potere: Conforto a ton, it just happens to be the most efficient means for us to heal.Parola del Potere: ConfortoParola del Potere: ConfortoParola del Potere: ConfortoParola del Potere: ConfortoParola del Potere: ConfortoParola del Potere: ConfortoI guess I have to really ask you a question, how hard is it supposed to be? At BC when I was doing heroic dungeons & kz it was a little challenging (that went away as gear got better). In WoTLK it was a breeze at the start. Cata was almost non-healable at start. So far Mists to me seems harder then BC but easier then Cata. I have not run out of mana doing the dungeons, but I have not hit the heroics yet. I will say I do pride myself on being very mana efficient (ever since the start), I don't cast a fCura Rapida (even now in DS gear) if a heal will do.

The problem I see is if we are expected to stand idle, it is not fun. Doing nothing in a dungeon during a fight is not enjoyable plain and simple. I do think overall mana regen is an issue, if you want the vast majority people completing dungeons and having fun it needs to be higher. If you want what happened in Cata where people thew up their hands in frustration and walked away form healing then keep it as is. It really is a matter of what you want in your game.Cura RapidaCuraPreghiera di CuraI don't understand why it couldn't keep its 1.5s cast time and reduce the mana returns instead.Parola del Potere: ConfortoMost people using old tier scaled gear I think have been using t12 set bonuses for healing.I know this has nothing to do with Parola del Potere: Conforto/Mana (well not much), but if you're feeling generous, could you please explain the thought behind our 2pc being 10% reduction to Cura Rapida, a spell even you said should be used sparingly, when, like, Holy Pally gets 10% to , a very commonly used spell?Cura RapidaCura RapidaOn the subject of mana returns, we're a little concerned about as well. It ends up being a tremendous source of mana for Disc, so much so, that the right behavior is probably to macro it to make sure it gets used on cooldown. We'd rather be a short cooldown with some flexibility (e.g. timing when the boss does a ton of damage) and not a button you have to use every 45 sec (or less with ).CuraDon't just remove it and add to . Do some innovative with it, if you are going to do anything.Involucro SpiritualeSounds good to me. Will 's throughput be buffed at all? It'd be great if the 25% increased critical strike chance was buffed, so that we could choose which heals it would be best to use it on.Out of curiosity, on the average 6 minute fight what are you guys aiming for each of the three healers in a 10m to be putting out in terms of HPS?

Are there going to be more fights this expansion where the dps requirements are too strict to allow 3 healers and they have to go dps (like the majority of DS?) Thanks again!They're right. Parola del Potere: Conforto is hitting unusually hard. I took Punizione and Fuoco Sacro off my bars because they are no longer necessary. Might want to tune the damage down on this ability.

Ghostcrawler

I really just don't understand what you all are doing with us, and it sure as hell seems like you have no idea either. You want a tip? Stop taking advice from the 1,000,000 casuals that probably don't even theorycraft on beta and get some direct input from players that actually know how to play the spec and see how they feel about the changes.

We are a dot class, and our dots are our worst abilities.Tocco VampiricoDetonazione MentaleFlagello MentaleWe have no burst CD. Our burst CD is save orbs and lose overall damage.Our damage relative to other classes is low, this really can't be argued with.Grande Imperatrice Shek'zeerGrande Imperatrice Shek'zeerFeng il MaledettoBut don't rage over this ^ is supposed to be a baseline ability for Shadow.Parola del Potere: ConfortoItem - Priest T14 Shadow 4P Bonus now also increases the damage done by by 15%.

How in the world does that make sense, work with your desire for Mists of Pandaria nor even not come across as hypocritical?Eruzione OscuraPlagiamenteSciamano

Ghostcrawler

There are several changes coming for shaman in the next build, some of which won’t be easily datamined, so we’d like to let you know about them. We shifted around where damage comes from for both Elemental and Enhancement. The overall damage should be down a bit, but both specializations should still feel strong. Remember, if you’re giving feedback and making comparisons to other classes and specs, please list who you’re comparing to, as it’s quite possible that you’re feeling underpowered compared to someone who is overpowered.

The were stronger than we wanted, so we reduced the amount of spell power that the standard version gets to 40%, down from 55% (Primal: 60%, down from 82.5%). The Elementalista Primordiale talent was also too strong, so we reduced the damage of the Famiglio - Elementale del Fuoco Primordiale’s Immolazione DoT by 65%. Also on the topic of talents, Detonazione Elementale was too weak, so we increased its damage and stat effects by roughly 17%, but reduced its proc chance with Eco degli Elementi to 6% for Enhancement (previously it had a 30% chance to trigger an Eco degli Elementi for Enhancement, which made that talent pair too strong).

Further, on the topic of shocks, we recently reduced the shared cooldown of shocks to 5 seconds for Elemental shaman. More recently, we lowered Folgore della Terra’s damage a bit and significantly increased ’s damage.

Specific to Enhancement, we wanted to bring DPS down a bit and also make them feel like more of their damage was coming from their active buttons, rather than passively. The one significant change that you probably won’t be able to datamine is an increase to Lupi Spirituali’ damage. They now get 50% of your attack power each, up from 30%. And their ability’s damage has more than doubled. The net result should be that Lupi Spiritualis are significantly stronger than before, probably somewhere between 70% and 100% stronger, depending on gear.
Totem del Flusso Vitale is a button you have to use every 30 seconds, and Totem delle Fiamme is a button you have to use every 60 seconds. No need to target anybody or do anything other than hit these buttons when the cooldowns are up. Are these abilities OK?

AvventatezzaPioggia CurativaCatena di GuarigioneIs the Pioggia Curativa mana cost decrease a second one in addition to the one that went live today?Stregone

Ghostcrawler

Afflizione Instabile was buffed by 25% in the current build. Either the tooltip or the data-mining suggest otherwise.
is currently not causing extra 50% ticks from the Seme della Corruzione DoT effect, is this intended? The Tooltip for reads "all your other affliction periodic damage effects", and the dot component of SOC should surely fall under that description.

i've noticed the Varco Demoniaco transports you slowly if going from the purple one to the green one. is it indended?Guerriero

Ghostcrawler

I was assuming that (roughly), the new plateau was something along the lines of the damage per second the tank wasreceiving. We could also say it as MeleeSwing/Swing Timer. I've been working on some values assuming this, but maybe I'm wrong then?

Ferite ProfondeWhat Zelix was getting at is that Haste is a low-value stat for DPS warriors, particularly Arms. During Cataclysm, it was worth about 1/2 as much as Mastery and 1/3 as much as Crit; we avoided gear with it. My own beta observation is that for Arms it's up to about 1/2 of Crit's value and 3/5s of Mastery's. Subject to someone telling me my numbers are wrong, that appears to be better, though not great (and it could also be because the removal of Impale and old Deep Wounds has devalued Crit, resulting in a relative increase only).

Our concern is scaling, really.Ferite ProfondeWhat would you 'expect' a prot warriors to be sitting around whilst tanking.. Oh let's say Two of the Three stone guards in a 10 player raid. Hypothetical situation, I've been tanking them for 20 seconds.Is enrages while enraged not proc'ing more charges of Colpo Furente intended?Furia del BerserkerColpo FurenteFuria del BerserkerFuria del BerserkerFuria del BerserkerFuria del BerserkerRapidità della NaturaFuria del BerserkerCurrently is seems like, unless cleaving is part of a bosses mechanics Arms falls well blow Fury. My current theory is simply because Arms doesn't benefit from Haste buffs at all(*). Hero gives 30% Haste for 40 seconds, gives 10% Attack Speed buff.They have already talked about this and their stance is tanks don't get from Players. They also said tanks are viable in PVP as flag carriers and defenders as long as their DPS is not the same or higher than a DPSer. Healer DPS will also be lower than Tanks if they chose to DPS as a healer.Also, Haste was horrible even before the Enrage changed. 7101 Haste Rating gave you an extra 14 swings over a 5 minute fight. Then it was based PURELY on crit if those 14 extra swings even mattered in the end.

Also, does the +10% Attack Speed count as "melee/range haste", or just attack speed?
I asked this because I didn't include it in my calculations above, because I'm confused as to how it works. (Lowers the Cast Time of Steady/ on my Hunter.)What actions will be taken to ensure that doesn't fall victim to being bound to heroic strike and forgotten?Colpo FurenteFuria del Berserker

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