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Survey - what is a tank?
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Post by
303745
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238343
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314017
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303745
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Post by
Tengen
I know you feel stongly about Hit and Expertise.
However in my experiences it is not worth gemming for or enchanting for. Unless your in one of those gear ruts and cant get an expertise piece to drop.
I roughly hover around 26 expertise and 6.5-7% Hit. With a Draenei in my group and the 40stam/hit food I do pretty well.
For A. You cant soak up dmg if you cant keep threat which is directly related to dmg.
For B. Your threat and dmg are directly related, the more dmg you do the more threat you do.
For C. Id would say it doesnt matter if you miss some if you can keep threat and your DPS isnt threat capped your doing fine.
For D. Im not sure what you think decent DPS. But a warrior tanks DPS should not save you from an enrage timer or be game breaking.
Hit and Expertise are important yes, but they are just a part of tanking. A warrior tanks need to have the correct balance of avoidance and threat stats. Not ignoring one or the other.
Im not sure what you mean by the Challenging shout comment, but ive seen a few misconceptions about warriors "taunts".
Taunt
is the only TRUE taunt warriors have. It is the only spell that gives the warrior the threat of the person who is #1 on the aggro chart.
Challenging Shout
and
Mocking Blow
only force the target to attack you for 6 seconds.
An example is a mage has 100k Threat on a target the warrior
Taunts
, now the mage and warrior have 100k threat.
Now lets say the warrior were to use
Challenging Shout
or
Mocking Blow
. The target will now attack the warrior for 6 seconds, in those 6 seconds lets say the warrior does 75k Threat. Once the 6 seconds is up the target will go back to the mage because he still has more threat.
Sorry for the long post i didnt mean to sound critical or harsh at all. Just giving my 2 cents.
Post by
193348
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314017
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Post by
anbuops
Well a tank is a heavily armored vehicle
Post by
skumbananer
In 5man pugs, i am secret option E. I secretly switch gear piece by piece, does it have block value it stays on, otherwise it get substituted to dps gear. I use recklessness and retaliation whenever i can and chain pull so i always get maximum out of my aoe moves (i even have glyph of cleaving) afterwards i spam recount, and tell everyone who is below me, near me or just above me how much they fail cause they where outdpsed/almost outdpsed by the warrior tank.
Post by
Porcell
In 5man pugs, i am secret option E. I secretly switch gear piece by piece, does it have block value it stays on, otherwise it get substituted to dps gear. I use recklessness and retaliation whenever i can and chain pull so i always get maximum out of my aoe moves (i even have glyph of cleaving) afterwards i spam recount, and tell everyone who is below me, near me or just above me how much they fail cause they where outdpsed/almost outdpsed by the warrior tank.
You sounds like a real *!@#$%. I'm sure your healer loves you...
Post by
174266
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Post by
Lorkin
I think a tank is something different from what you've listed. IMO, there are 2 characteristics of a tank, what defines them:
Ability to hold aggro over the mobs: Be it from abilities, gearing, talents you've taken, hit/expertise scores, etc. It is the tank's job to hold aggro, and currently the best way to do so is through damage because it scales. There are some tricks you can employ for sticky situations (like Vigilance on the OT so you can taunt infinitely), but generally you hold aggro through your damage and abilities.
Ability to reduce incoming damage: From our avoidance stats, to our Armor values, and Block numbers, we are defined by our methods to reduce incoming damage. We rely on our CD's, the RNG, and just sometimes the abilities of our raid members to keep us alive.
As for the hit/expertise scores. When I was running Heroics and the starter raids, I didn't pay much attention to those scores. I tried to keep my hit up enough so that I could land my abilities, and hopefully had enough rage generation for those abilities. DPS generally was lower due to the folks I was running with, we were all similiarly geared. My low hit/expertise scores were enough to get us through everything, even though some of their dps increased over time.
The major wall that I hit was on Malygos in a 10 man EoE. WIth double stacks and much more geared dps in that fight I was struggling to hold onto aggro. The major hurdle were the classes that did tons of damage but with no threat reducing abilities (Fury Warriors, DKs, etc). Managed to down him but after that fight I was looking for answers. Luckily the wowhead warrior forums had much to offer as far as advice and I started to gear specifically for more hit/expertise.
Now that I've gotten some decent gear upgrades my damage has gone through the roof. I usually am 2nd or 3rd on the meters in 5 man Heroics and about the middle of the pack on 10 and 25 man raids. My focus was on increasing my threat, and the side effect was the large increase of damage that I am able to do now. Even though hit/expertise doesn't seem important to you, I think all of us will eventually hit that wall as I did in EoE and rethink the value of those scores.
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174266
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Post by
marklartank
As another point of reference, I was looking at my Recount lists last night after I did 2 wings in Naxx-10 with my guild. I was #3 on total damage list... Not the DPS list (I was #5 on that, but that's beside the point).. Apparently I did a fair amount of damage to make the raid group viable.
Am I doing something wrong?
if this is true, you are not doing something wrong, but your dps'ers are terrible.
if the dps i run with were only 2x my dps, then we would not progress very far. as much fun as it was to try and maximize my own damage on naxx runs, when it comes to progression content, it gets pretty irrelevant.
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95950
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121564
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303745
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Post by
TheTempest
Well i see tank as simply as someone who simply soaks up all the damage.
But for a tank to first of all take the damage he needs their attention, threat, which is gained through spells and damage, but not as much damage as the DPS would do and for him to survive all that damage till the healer can cast his healing spell he needs HP, armor and avoidance.
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230223
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Post by
Nihn
I know you were asking about tanks alone, but to me it's a larger issue. Tanking is all about the group working together, and to me, there are three parts to a group, be it 5-man, 10-man, or 25-man....
Tank(or Tank team)
Job duties: Be healable. Be an "Aggro
$%^&*
Magnet", Know your job/the fight
Basic Description: You take the hits so others don't have to, you control the flow of pulls to ensure that the healers mana is sufficient for the next pull. Know the place you are running, or let others know that you are learning. People are more forgiving if you own up to learning something as opposed to just messing things up repeatedly for no apparent reason
Healer(or Heal team)
Job duties: Have mana to heal Tank/AoE splash damage/Randomized targeting strikes.
Basic description: No everyone doesn't "have to be topped off after every fight, but makes things simpler... If the tank is dying and your "mana efficient" ways aren't cutting it, rethink your rotations, if you have 90%mana and the tank dies, something is wrong, either with the Tank's Gear, or your rotation, or with the tank not paying attention to your Mana Pool.
DPS Team(s)
Job Duties: Kill swiftly, Kill smoothly, Don't die
Basic Description: Yes, it's your job to find out the best way to pour on the damage, while keeping the mobs attention on the tank.Yes, you can get threat capped if the Tank is not as geared as you or is slower on the uptake, but better to know where your tank's threat cap is, and NOT go past it than to raise your personal DPS, and die in a blaze of glory.
I have had experience in all 3 fields(DPS, Tank and Healer) an it's best when all three work together as a team to accomplish a goal.
When I have run RecountI look at different things.
When I'm DPS, I'm upset if the tank does vastly better than me in DPS/Damage Done and I try to figure out a better rotation, if the Healer does better than me... I know I'm doing something wrong.
When I'm a healer, I tend to ignore Recount until after the fact, to monitor raid/group progress and see if there are any threat cap/mitigation issues I can talk to the tanks about.
When I'm a Tank I look at my Incoming damage as well as the other DPS'ers overall performance. If I know that they could do better on the run, I try to see how I can get better threat capped, if I felt like I was close to dying a little too often, I'd look at my mitigation to see how that could be improved, or see if i could help the healer work out thier rotation/mana issues.
So you want me to sum up what a Tank is to me? I guess there are two versions.
PUG'd tank - Meat Sheild
Guild Tank - Someone who knows enough about the game and other classes to know what problems may or maynot arise and try to work things smoothly while trying to teach others the lay of the land. Some one who has done research to know how to meet the three basic criteria of being a tank. Be healable(Health and mitigation) Be the Aggro Magnet(Threat if not DPS) and Be knowlagable(Know what you are doing before you attempt it)
Of course the last part can be waived by those forging ahead in new territories, after all, the first way to learn is to do it your self and fail until you finally succeed and find a plan that wins.
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